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2007-05-08 10:54:23

Last author: Cenyre
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Pro-Choice..Woman's Choice

If you think women should have a choice about abortions then you are at the right place. Feel free to tell stories or just leave a comment. I would really like a banner! I started this wiki because I feel that every woman should have the choice. I am also going to have a page for "pro-lifers" to have a say, but first we need more people to join! I will have pictures of the March in DC, the largest humans right march in the world! 1.2 MILLION! please leave a comment on why you are pro-choice!

PC stories feel free to write anything!

pro-choice banners!

PC pics put up your pics!

american terrorism - become aware of crazy pro-life extremists

[Vampire Mariam] I believe women should have the right to do what they think is right when the get pregnant. I know some women who get pregnant by accident may not be able to raise a child, or want to raise a child. What if the condom broke? What if she got raped?...it is her choice....I AM NOT pro-abortion!!.....it is for the woman to decide!!!! not the goverment or any one else!

[Scooz] I must agree that women should be allowed to have abortions, but I do not like the ones that wait til they are 6 months along or more because by then the baby has had too much time to develop. But I have been raped before and if he would have gotten me pregnant and I could not abort his child, it would not have been a pretty picture. Do not bring a child into this world if you do not want it, because you are ruining their life and yours.

[Rondel] I have seen too many situations which could best be addressed by terminating the pregnancy, and have myself been through the procedure, including in a situation where the egg, though fertilized, did not develop; without that procedure, the hyperemesis which caused me to throw up every 15 minutes round the clock could not have been stopped -- and I would still have wound up miscarrying, because there was no developing embryo, just a "blighted ovum".
The worst, though, was a situation in which a relative of mine faced a back-alley abortion after an incestuous relationship forced on her by her adoptive step-father, in the days before abortion was legalized in the US. I will never be able to understand *anyone* who can claim that a person in that position should be constrained by law from terminating a pregnancy which has not yet produced a child.
Where there is no brain activity, human life is deemed to have ended, so I cannot consider it to have begun when the brain and nervous system have not yet formed and connected

[Kayne] abortion should be legal , what if you were a crack whore and you got pregnant by accicent ? do you think that child is going to be happy ? no . What if you were 16 and you had a accident ? do you think she will can take care of it ? probably not
abortion = legal!!!!!!!

[Delight] What drives me insane is that fact that the people who don't support abortion and wish to ban it also don't support the health care for the woman when she has her child, or even before. They dont fund the orphanage, or somewhere that can help her raise it. They dont fund the homeless shelters enough because if the woman has a child that she can not handle or afford, thats where she is going to end up. Its an idiodic thing to abolish abortion because freedom requires it, and also because there is nothing to help the people who are forced to have children because of it. The people who dont get to go to school because they had to leave to have and care for their child. When such occurs, if the woman does not marry a rich man, which is even more unlikely because she already has a kid (Atleast statistically), she will become a lower class member of society, whoooooo guess what peoples, is not supported well enough at all by a government that would abolish abortion.
If a woman were to die, if she would keep the child, or the child were to die. Is that okay? If they were to die of starvation or cold because they cannot now afford heat or food or clothes, is that okay? Is it alright for someone to make a decision for everyone else that makes them, instead of ridding themselves of an unwanted pregnancy, die from hunger or cold? Its an extreme version of the situation, but it does happen. I know that for a fact. So a painful misrable death, or a painless one? If you're personally religious, is that right in the eyes of your deity? If you're not, is that right in the eyes of your morals?
What if the woman was raped? What about keeping the child then. The psychological damages from that would be amazing. For both mother and child.
There is also the thing that the people who get rid of it in the first place are men.
Also, think. If a woman were to find out that she was going to have a child who was seriously retarted or disabled. Such to a point that the kid would not live past birth, or to a point that the kid would be absolutly misrable for their entire life, if they survived that long. Such to a point that if the parent died, they would end up in an institution of some kind. Is that alright? Does that make sense to have a child like that? Does it make sense to create someone who will have a horrible and misrable existance?
Lastly, why do they think that they can make such a decision for the rest of the world. Its amazingly stupid. Those who abolish it could just not have abortions themselves. Do they really have to take control of everone elses choice, or lack of? Do they really have the Right to make it so that no one else could have even the option of having an abortion?
Sorry about the rant, but its just how i feel about it, and was relieved to be able to write it down and get it all out.

[Dil*]:
This is a touchy subject that is not just black and white, there's alot of grays in it. Sure It's terrible to get rid of a unborn child, but wouldn't it be just as terrible if a child was born to parents who didn't really want them in the first place. They would grow up in a hellish environment with little love and maybe it would of been better if they weren't born. Young mothers are confused and sometimes not able to take care of a child properly as well. I also think women should have a bigger say in this issue, hell, guys don't have to carry the child around in their bloody stomachs. I'm not a religious person and i frankly don't care if you're religious or not, BUT...when peoiple try to bring religion into things like this, it's very irritating to me. If the woman wants the abortion and she's not religous, she doesn't need bloody religious fanatics parading around the abortion clinic. If they're not religious, they DO NOT care about your ideals and whatnot. It's their decision if they want to get an abortion and they have to live with the consequences. Oh well, I'm going to hell now, wait, I've come to that conclusion ages ago...don't mind me, i have a messed up sense of humor. (I'm an aetheist anyways, so i don't care)

[Veltzeh] (founder of Pro-Choice League)
In my opinion, abortion should be legal, offered free in hospitals and encouraged if the woman has the slightest doubt that she wouldn't want to have the baby. In today's over-populated world all children should be wanted and they shouldn't have to spend even a small part of their lives in orphanages living off of the society's money that could be used for something else. Yes, I realize my opinion is very harsh, but there it is.
Finally, a question to think about: Why are those who oppose abortion often religious fanatics who likely have never read even basic biology, while those who are pro-choice are often doctors and other educated people who know their biology, physiology and even ethics?

[Hermes322] I think that it's better to get an abortion done by a doctor, in an office as opposed to a back alley by a creepy guy who offers to show kids puppies.

[Icetigris] I believe that the only people who should even have a say in these laws are women. Men don't have to deal with it so they should stay out of it. Also, I find it ridiculous that people value the life of a 40-celled blastocyst over a thinking, truly living, conscious woman who can feel physical and emotional pain. That ball of cells has no more consciousness than a potato; potatoes don't have rights, so why should something cognitively equivalent have rights, just because it has human DNA? I was at the March for Women's Lives and saw a great sign pointing out an interesting parallel: in China, the government forces abortion, in the US, the government is trying to force women to have babies they don't want. In both situations, it's not whether or not the people want to kill the baby (as anti-choice people are wont to say), it's about whether or not women have a choice about what to do with their own bodies. Whatever happened to separation of church and state?

[FireGypsy] I have read over your opinions on pro-choice. I beleive the mother should have a choice. I also beleive that abortion should be legal, under certain conditions. If you were a victim of incest, if the baby has a fatal or developing fatal disease, If the baby HAS aquired a fatal disease from the mother, if either the baby or the mother or both will die during pregnancy or labor. Other than that they abortionist should tell that mother NO! Millions of Women every year have abortions simply because they cant afford the kid, their parents wont let them, they have been raped, or because they simply dont want one. Well if you cant afford one...you shouldnt have had sex. If you dont want one...you shouldnt have had sex. If the mother doesnt want the baby for reasons such as stated above then the mother should have the baby and give it up for adoption. Those doctors should say "No. maam you cannot kill that baby in you. That baby is in no danger and neither are you. You must have the baby and put it up for adoption if you dont want it that bad."

[Arbor] It is simply the choice for which I stand. Give me the CHOICE. If you are against abortion then keep your child. Do not try to make my decision for me; let me deal with the consequences.

[sophomoric] I've debated a long while whether or not I should put up my stance here, but I've concluded that perhaps I should. This is a page about choice, and none should question my stance lest they wish for their own to be put to question. I am in a position where there is significant moral confliction. To begin, I am a vegetarian. What does this have to do with pro-choice? A lot. Just because I have taken a moralistic position against something that I feel is wrong, does not mean that I, or anyone else have the right to impose this position on others. I believe that animals and babies should live, but I do not believe that it is a pick and choose situation. In order to follow an omnivorous diet, animals have to die, and this is a concept that people don't even blink an eye at most of the time.

Pregnant women (I will not call them mothers under such circumstances) that decide they should like to get an abortion are rather inversely viewed as evil and terrible individuals. That carries a double standard from a moralistic perspective. Therefore, it is my stance that I don't respect the arguments of any pro-choicers unless they don't have a moralistic double standard.

That may seem a little cold and heartless, but as I regard animals as highly as I do humans (higher in a wondrous variety of cases) I find it almost comical that people can use an argument of potential. We, as humans, have warped the course of nature more than any other creature, under the argument that this is our earth given to us from any variety of deities. If that is their argument, then fine, mine is that women were given their bodies from any number of deitical figures, and just as we have spoiled the earth, let them do to their body as they will; there are far worse ways a child could die, all of them taking place when they are aware of their own existence.

As for the adoption argument; the world is over-populated as it is, outlawing abortion would cause another massive rise in the population, by millions if previous figures hold true.

Conclusion: It truly IS a choice just as we all, invariably, have choices.

[Tolmeni] I think it's rather telling that most of the anti-abortion zealots are male, who will never suffer through a pregnancy or labor that threatens their life and the life of their child. I don't believe in abortions when the fetus is too far along, but when the life of the woman is in serious danger, or there is no chance of she or the baby having any hope of a positive life, or if the baby will be born addicted to illegal substances...I think abortion is a viable option.

[AbLam] Whether it is the right or wrong thing to do, it is still a choice. No one but the woman who is having the baby should be able to choose. I'm sorry, but there isn't a good excuse for outlawing women's right to choose. Period.

[P(e)Ta] NO-ONE but the woman involved had the right to make a decision as to whether or not she goes through with her pregnancy (especially not conservative twats who are male and will never know the pain of having to choose). However, abortion should not be used as a form of emergency contraception. Girls still have to be responsible, but the choice should still be there!

[bodhranbabe] What I hate are the bumper stickers that say, "Smile, your mother was pro-life!" I'm sorry, but my mother was pro-choice, and she chose to have me. Being pro-choice is just as much about the positive choice as it is the negative. It's about the option.

[a faerie tale] When they scream "murderer" at me because I'm Pro-Choice, I feel the panic rise in my throat. I want to run, I want to yell, "Not me! I'm a moral person. I'm trying to help!" Those people have a right, I guess. It's what they believe. So I've got to face it, and be strong-- . POC's, "products of conception", that's what we're supposed say. "tissue" "termination" But when that machine starts, it's not just "tissue" that's sucked out. It's life: potentially human life. And like the Buddhists, I believe in "reverence for life". That's why I'm a vegetarian. But I also believe that conception should be a blessing. My brother's wife: when she's pregnant she sings lullabies, she organizes everything she eats and drinks-- she makes herself a perfect vessel. But you can't order a woman to do that! Not by bullying! What makes those people out there think a person can be frightened into goodness? Oh, give it up for adoption, they say! How can a mother do that? Carry a baby under her heart for nine long months and then give it away? Once it grows and moves it's a part of you. Loved, the way you love your own knees, or your breasts. And does your responsibility end, if you hand it over? What about Lisa Steinberg's mother? Does she sleep nights, now? She thought her daughter was going to be given every advantage, not tortured to death. Even a good adoption-- suppose you're a concert violinist, and your baby goes to a family that's tone deaf, that thinks music is noise....? Who would want to live that life? Who would want to give a child that life?

Add your name to the list of pro-choice people

1. [Vampire Mariam]
2. [Kisama]
3. [brandi_080786]
4. [Kiss_Me_Bum]
5. [Mitsune]
6. [Carol Lynn]
7. [Pale-Suzie]
8. [Blackshire]
9. [sarah l b]
10. [minifer]
11. [Scooz]
12. [dimmu_borgir3212]
13. [Arbor]
14. [Lily~]
15. [Tidd3]
16. [Rondel]
17. [Nukleopatra]
18. [VorpalBlade910]
19. [ei33]
20. [Fallen_Angel_666]
21. [Tehrror]
22. [Project Elysium]
23. [kate katastrophe]
24. [Kayne]
25. [Glorybox.]
26. [Tormenta]
27. [deja vu, mi amor]
28. [Veltzeh]
29. [Your Christ Is Dead]
28. [Mania Rage]
29. [Delight]
30. [Davorah]
31. [x_bubblicious]
32. [Alfirin Lindlea]
33. [Christie Shadow]
34. [// Grace //.And..Bend]
35. [Carol Lynn]
36. [Furr]
37. [Dil*]
38. [Pyra]
39. [Yoruno]
40. [Magic Circle]
41. [sophomoric]
42. [Doormat]
43. [how about no?]
44. [Hermes322]
45. [Icetigris]
46. [Tiezu Star]
47. [Elrohir Elensar]
48. [God called in sick today]
49. [BrokenPromise7x]
50. [Pillowthief]
51. [Blue Raspberries and Grape Juice]
52. [Not Here!]
53. [My Chemical Erin]
54. [Sue Falkenkralle]
55. [Anduraja]
56. [Bullet with Butterfly Wings]
57. [JinXTheMoodieAl]
58. [Morrigon]
59. [tiragon]
60. [Nostradamia]
61. [Jinji-Chan]
62. [Hazel]
63. [to a new?]
64. [jojo-kun]
65. [Anon Y. Mous]
66. [CharlotteCrying]
67. [Lashinnian]
68. [Tolmeni]
69. [Rosie.]
70. [*~A Cure For Contempt~*]
71. [AbLam]
72. [P(e)Ta]
73. [bodhranbabe]
74. [kaomi]
75. [Yiwerra]
76. [Bad Wolf]
77. [I stabbith ye]
78. [Eldanár Oronar]
79. [a faerie tale]
80. [kay-chan]
81. [Hufflepuff Lolita]
82. [deranged-bugosh]
83. [Bad Wolf]
84. [Blue Raspberries and Grape Juice]
85. [Cenyre]

Not the church, not the state, only the women should decide their own fate!

Have a different opinion? Check out pro-life and Against Abortion League.

2004-07-21 [Delight]: *grin* i'm just insane and random when i'm tired

2004-07-21 [Blackshire]: i wub everyone

2004-07-21 [Delight]: lol... even the flying hampsters.. because they arent fun... they bite your ears when you arent looking!

2004-07-22 [minifer]: *frolics in and gives big huggles to everyone..jus cos she can*

2004-07-23 [Delight]: *squeeks*

2004-07-25 [minifer]: was that a squeek of pain??...i hope not...am sorry if twas....i get told its jus wrong that being so skinny i can give such big bear hugs...

2004-07-25 [Delight]: Lol! hahaha! It was a squeek of squeekdom... Yes... thats a word now.. because i said so..

2004-07-26 [Blackshire]: awww how cute

2004-07-26 [Delight]: EEP! *hides behind minifer and clings to her back... points* voicceeeee

2004-07-26 [Blackshire]: hehehe

2004-07-26 [Delight]: Lol, i'm happy to be amusing you?

2004-07-26 [Acomplished Exile]: I THINK KILLIN BABIES AND THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN GENERATIONS IS BEATIFUL

2004-07-26 [Lost in Illusions]: er... right. ~sits far away from deveel~ It's the woman's choice. I personally would never have an abortion, but I believe everyone should ahve a choice, as long as it is legit.

2004-07-26 [Acomplished Exile]: it is wrong, what decision or "choice" is tyhere to make?you had sex then attain to the consequences

2004-07-26 [Blackshire]: Everyone has a different opinion or a different way of looking at things.

2004-07-26 [Delight]: *blink* Um.... yeah, see, what if the sex isnt willing? do they deserve what you deem as 'their concequences' then?

2004-07-26 [Blackshire]: abortion is an argrument no one is ever going to agree on

2004-07-26 [minifer]: yup yup muffin..too true...

2004-07-26 [Veltzeh]: Just like religion... death penalty... and so on... (Sorry, just had to state the obvious. *walks away now*)

2004-07-27 [Delight]: lol, ce'st la vie, i guess... the unnatual natuality (making up word) of human nature

2004-07-27 [Acomplished Exile]: Abortion is simple-go ahead, kill your son, i eman its one more life, who cares?

2004-07-27 [Delight]: wow, your stance on this confuses me deveel.

2004-07-28 [Veltzeh]: [Acomplished Exile]'s trying to be sarcastic. Obviously refuses to see the other side of things... but the world is full of stupid people, what's one more going to add. =P

2004-07-28 [Blackshire]: *plays guitar*

2004-07-28 [Alfirin Lindlea]: just coz I'm personally never going to have an abortion, doesn't mean that we should take the option away from people

2004-07-29 [Delight]: You play?

2004-07-29 [Blackshire]: I wish.

2004-07-30 [Delight]: Aww, why not, though? If you want to play it, why dontcha learn?

2004-07-30 [Blackshire]: I don't have one

2004-07-30 [Delight]: You can get them pretty cheap.

2004-07-30 [One]: I've got to ask here, by women's choice are you denying the father any say in the matter?

2004-07-30 [Delight]: Lol, i dont think so, atleast personally i dont in any way. I think that its important to make it a joint decision, but the lass has many more possible qualifications.

2004-07-30 [One]: yeah, well I think that both parties should have the decision, but I understand that the woman goes through the pain, but I still believe the father should have part of the decision because it is still his child

2004-07-30 [Veltzeh]: Yeah, I think the dad should have some weight in the decision, but ultimately it should be the woman's choice...

2004-07-30 [Delight]: *nods*

2004-07-31 [Blackshire]: I never listen to my dad ;x

2004-07-31 [Delight]: Lol! Of course, thats the master plan, you're not supposed to tell the world... shhh

2004-07-31 [Blackshire]: I don't think anyone does because they're so egotistic and aggressive. They think they're the head of the house when they ain't shit.

2004-07-31 [Delight]: Lol, my mom is totally the head. My dad cant ever pull rank.

2004-07-31 [Blackshire]: Dads suck.

2004-07-31 [Delight]: particular animosity towards them now?

2004-07-31 [Veltzeh]: What the heck is that last one by [Glace*]? It's badly written and should probably be on the opinion page and not there, don't you think?

2004-07-31 [Glace*]: Sorry i don't speak english very well, feel free to correct it or to tell me the mistakes. i didn't know there was an opinion page, where is it ?

2004-07-31 [Veltzeh]: Well, there doesn't seem to be on this page... Pro-Choice League <-- there is!

2004-07-31 [Glace*]: ok, but first i will try to see why it is so "badly written". But except the fact that i don't speak english very well, tell me what's wrong with it ?

2004-07-31 [Veltzeh]: Well, besides the spelling mistakes (like "personnally", "developped" and "i") and other random typos, there's a lot of third person confusion ("knows", not "know"), calling the baby "he" (which others do as well, but in nowaday's world I'd consider it sexist and cumbersome, y'know), punctuation and capital letters, and well, all those combined makes it also hard to understand. Sorry... I've been bad at English as well, but for someone with English as a second language, I came out okay, I guess. *shuts up now*

2004-08-03 [sophomoric]: If someone should happen to write "he" for the baby, it's not quite sexist so much as potentially following the rules provided in such latin based languages as French or Spanish... Honestly, if someone happens to do that, I don't think it's an attempt to suppress women, instead it's just taking one gender up rather than having to right he/she all the time, as "they" would also be incorrect... though I suppose you could call the baby "it" but some would argue that it demeans the child. Oh well... Oh... and I sort of went correction happy on the writing on this page because I'm sort of... in a weird mood.

2004-08-03 [Veltzeh]: Yeah, other languages are worse... Only Finnish is best, heh. We have only one third person pronoun! Hm... "they" is pretty accepted nowadays, though.

2004-08-03 [sophomoric]: of course, but that still doesn't make it correct... it's a matter of whether you value grammar or... what is accepted.

2004-08-03 [Veltzeh]: Really... http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html ...Hm... another thing I could bring up is that female is the base form of humans (simple biological info), so with respect to science, I guess a random person should be called "she"... So, it's science versus tradition, eh?

2004-08-03 [sophomoric]: Indeed. I'm all for people saying whatever they choose to though... after all, if you think women should have a choice in a matter of such importance, shouldn't people be allowed a choice in matters of so little? :P

2004-08-03 [Veltzeh]: I'd rather if eveyone spoke Finnish and was rid of this problem! Huhaha! Hail to the one single third person pronoun! ...I'm evil. Er, yeah.

2004-08-03 [sophomoric]: lol... True... I'll learn it now. lol

2004-08-03 [Veltzeh]: X-)

2004-08-03 [Blackshire]: moooooooooo

2004-08-04 [Delight]: *sigh* it all adds to my 'english is a stupid language' thing. Personally greek is becoming a preferance though.

2004-08-04 [sophomoric]: I like english because it's so easy to manipulate. Anyway...

2004-08-04 [Delight]: Lol, i like people for manipulative qualities.

2004-08-04 [Veltzeh]: [Delight], you said it... I could go on and on about what makes Finnish the best language in the world (it's even a better object of manipulation than English!) but er, I wonder if anyone else wants to hear it. Heh. X-)

2004-08-04 [sophomoric]: Only reason why I like English better than other languages though... it's so full of ridiculous rules... and since I've been raised on it as long as I have, it only makes sense that it's easier for me... for example, I can't manipulate french properly. lol

2004-08-04 [Veltzeh]: Yeah... almost all always like their mother tongue the best... And we here don't seem to be exceptions. ;-)

2004-08-04 [sophomoric]: I don't recall which language was my first... but I THINK it was english. lol

2004-08-04 [sophomoric]: Oh... and my diary currently holds a pro-choice rant, and a pro-life-ish rant. lol

2004-08-04 [Veltzeh]: Nice rants.

2004-08-04 [sophomoric]: thanks. lol

2004-08-04 [Delight]: See, i was raised mainly on english, but got random languages from quite a young age. German, Spanish, and Hebrew; to name a few. But as much as I adore word games that one can play with multiple meanings to create double entandres or things along those lines, i still dont like that there are words that are incapable of the definition that they have. Or words that should have about 11 where there is only one.

2004-08-05 [Blackshire]: How are abortions preformed?

2004-08-05 [Tormenta]: its an operation where the doctors scrape out the inside of the uterus

2004-08-05 [VorpalBlade910]: *cringes and holds stomach* yippie, sounds fun

2004-08-05 [Tormenta]: if its not done correctly it can ruin the womans uterus so she can never have children again

2004-08-05 [Blackshire]: eek

2004-08-05 [Veltzeh]: You can also do it by medication... I read somewhere that the scraping thing is easier and relatively risk-free... you know, when giving birth, stuff can go wrong so that the woman can't have more children anymore. Yeah...

2004-08-05 [Tormenta]: thats true also

2004-08-08 [Nukleopatra]: yyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy i'm back

2004-08-08 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: welcome back

2004-08-09 [Nukleopatra]: thanks^^

2004-08-09 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: your welcome :)

2004-08-09 [Nukleopatra]: how are you and whoever else is here

2004-08-09 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: i am.....alot of things right now but exsisting is the big part of it..hows are you?

2004-08-09 [Nukleopatra]: not good but i'm alive

2004-08-09 [JAreturns 14]: yeah! pro baby death all the way! i agree...lets sacrifice our babies on the altar of a fun and easy life...cuz after all, it is their fault that their father was a sadistic phsycopath able to rape someone.

2004-08-10 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: hmm..do i detect sarcasticness?...with a pinch of ignorance???....or is it just your male ego shoving your head so far up your ass your mummbling sounds like speech but with no true meaning to it...

2004-08-10 [VorpalBlade910]: .......

2004-08-10 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: whats...... for?

2004-08-10 [VorpalBlade910]: cause i was waiting for his answer

2004-08-10 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: im sorry but if you really chooose to come to a wiki like this and say soemthing like that..it doesnt speak highly of you

2004-08-10 [VorpalBlade910]: nope

2004-08-10 [Blackshire]: Yeah this is a message board for people who have this believe and of course there are people who are going to be stupid and say unintellegent things but they should to it in an opposing wiki rather than a wiki that has the opposite believe and they are outnumbered. So yeah antichoice, next time say something half way intellegent in here before making an ass of yourself. We'd love to have a debate any day but don't be a moron.

2004-08-11 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: yea..exactly

2004-08-11 [Nukleopatra]: ^________^ GO SEB!

2004-08-11 [Veltzeh]: Okay, the page owner really needs to push the button that says "Export this wiki as if it were Elftown-pseudo-HTML". XD

2004-08-12 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: yea....COME ON MAKER!!

2004-08-15 [Acomplished Exile]: I think killing babies is wonderful, throwing away millions of lifes and generations a yr is nothing important.................or so say the 35 members of this club

2004-08-15 [Veltzeh]: Why don't you join then, wiseguy?

2004-08-15 [Blackshire]: I don't even think [Acomplished Exile] even read my comment... Idiot.

2004-08-15 [Veltzeh]: Well, it is a known fact that people like him don't know how to read... So yes, an idiot indeed.

2004-08-15 [Blackshire]: He just makes me giggle :)

2004-08-15 [Nukleopatra]: my dear what an arse. isn't that what the anti-choice wikis are for?

2004-08-15 [Acomplished Exile]: i know how to read you ass hat and i also know hwo to see, i see the blatant disrepect for human life sickos liek you promote..................you did nto answer my claims you killers................how woudl you feel if you, defenseless and small were killed, by your own mother?

2004-08-15 [Veltzeh]: [Acomplished Exile], I would not mind at all. And not only do you need to learn to read, you also need to learn how to write! Oh geeze, that's just too hilarious. Lol! XD Oh and just so that you know... we're not answering to you because you wouldn't listen anyway, and you don't know how to read, so there's no point in the first place. At least, that's my excuse.

2004-08-15 [Acomplished Exile]: what a dumb ass typical liberal excuse...................ppl like you always spining away from the topic, bending it so it looks liek you are right.im sick now lol

2004-08-16 [Veltzeh]: [Acomplished Exile], that's exactly what people like YOU are doing... we're perfectly aware that our view is an opinion... but I haven't seen any pro-baby people who would consider their view as just an opinion and not a fact. And er... in case you missed my excuse (which seems like you did), it was just that I'm lazy. So there. =P

2004-08-16 [Blackshire]: [Acomplished Exile], firstly learn how to write, and secondly it's the womens' choice. This world is full of people with different beliefs so learn to deal with it.

2004-08-16 [Acomplished Exile]: its the woman;s choice, its the baby's life?

2004-08-16 [VorpalBlade910]: mk not to get into ya'lls...um....yeah, but the fetus, i'm using that word cause the child can not think for itself, nor depend on itself, nor take care of itself, it's still inside the mother. It is and should always be the mothers descision, it shouldn't be murder because it doesn't have rights yet

2004-08-17 [Nukleopatra]: yeah no one has the right to used another's body as a life support system w/o their permission. the woman would be like a prisoner under control of the fetus.

2004-08-17 [VorpalBlade910]: this is probably a really out there and like....random....whatever but saying that the mother is a killer cause she choose to abort her child is like saying the child is a killer if their mother dies during childbirth

2004-08-17 [Veltzeh]: Nicely said, [VorpalBlade910] and [Nukleopatra]. =)

2004-08-17 [sophomoric]: God damn my nature... I feel like arguing against you even though I agree... for the most part at least...

2004-08-17 [Veltzeh]: Heh, I sometimes feel like that too.

2004-08-17 [sophomoric]: There is a difference between the mother desiring an abortion and the child "killing" the mother, because the mother elects to abort the child, the child neither elects to be conceived or born. -.- damn it..

2004-08-17 [Furr]: Sign me up on this thing.. I feel like kicking those men, who decided abortion should be illegal, in the groin. Hard. With a metal-boot. The decisionmakers should try have an unwanted pregnancy, and then, they could decide if it's okay..

2004-08-17 [Veltzeh]: K, I'll do that... might just as well sign up myself, seeing as I haven't already... I'll replace myself to the place of that one who's on twice. But the owner still needs to push that darned button! X-)

2004-08-17 [Nukleopatra]: yeah really

2004-08-17 [Acomplished Exile]: the fetus has no rights? the fetus is the same as life, its a stage of life, without beign a fetus you cannot be a human like you and me!you are killing life!mommy doenst kill!she hasses sex and she nurses what she created, she dont kill it!

2004-08-17 [Nukleopatra]: hehehe hey i'm going to make a wiki for people who are for killing babys but against abortion. hey kid, you are intitled to your opinion and we are intitled to ours.

2004-08-17 [Kelaria]: You know... I'm starting to be annoyed by the fact that the page is all messed up... The owner hasnt been active for almost 10 days!

2004-08-17 [Nukleopatra]: let's make a page of our own right after we crusify little boys who try to tell women what they can't do.

2004-08-18 [Nukleopatra]: unless you're married and your wife is pregnant, you have no place in telling a woman what she can do with her body privatley. it's her body and her choice.

2004-08-18 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: Ok sorry to jump into the war here but vorpal said that since the fetus is dependent on its mother it has no rights...If that were the case then every (excuse the term) vegtable should be taken of life support because they are not supporting themselves....I believe that a abortion should be performed only if there is risk to the mother's life outside what is normal...just because some girl was stupid enough to have sex without useing the proper protection is no reason to kill a child/fetus...she was irrisponsible once...she shouldn't be again

2004-08-18 [Nukleopatra]: atleast someone from pro-life has sense

2004-08-18 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: thank-you...but that's not what I want recognized...Oh by the way....who Is the owner of this page?

2004-08-18 [Kelaria]: [Vampire Mariam] is..... I dissagree with you in a small way TSP. It has to do with the "vegtable" having lived a life and having thoughts and feelings. I know that the reasoning that the fetus depends on it's mother is "flawed" but the whole vegtable thing doesnt really support your views as well as I think you believe it does.... holy crap. I think I just confused myself with what I was trying to say.... hopefully I got my message across. I would definetly not get an abortion myself (unless I was raped or something like that, then I might) but It is the woman's choice.

2004-08-18 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: Alright but when a abortion is formed the fetus/child is removed and alowed to squirm it's life away in agony on a table or something...even a fetus has nerves....Oh and if the woman doesn't want the child becuase she is poor, young or is just to lazy, she should put it up for adoption, and if she just didn't want to go through the pain of giving birth she could have a cesarian(spl?) performed

2004-08-18 [Kelaria]: I agree with the last part. There needs to be a good reason for an abortion to happen. I think there should be like consultation clinics or something. and some sort of support group system. Everything possible should be done to help the woman make the best choice under the circumstances.

2004-08-18 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: I know....did you know that when a girl has a abortion and she asks the doctor/nurse if it's a baby yet they usually lie and say something like "No it's just a peice of tissue like a blood clot" and because the doctors tell them that the girls think it doesn't have feelings yet and it does; All the child's digits AKA fingers, toes, fingerprints are formed at twelve weeks and a abortion can still be performed at twenty-two weeks! I know a little girl who was around four months when she was taken by cesarian; she is now seven and is going to kindergarten this year. She was only held back a year...You cannot tell me that a fetus cannot survive without its mother at twenty-two weeks...It can

2004-08-18 [Veltzeh]: I got a small thing to add to [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]'s first one... what the couple having sex did use protection, but it failed? ...And then to another tangent... It sucks if the doctors tell that the fetus isn't a human baby... It really seems like a fashion in USA. Here if a doctor said that, they'd most likely get fired at least, as far as I know...

2004-08-18 [sophomoric]: a fetus actually does have memories and thoughts... just not verbalized... after a baby is born, it's been proven that they have dreams... nightmares perhaps...

2004-08-18 [sophomoric]: DAMN IT! I AGREE THAT WOMEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO ABORTIONS! Only, there are certain circumstances that don't please me when they try for it.

2004-08-18 [sophomoric]: I created Pro-Choice..Women's Choice... Basically it's going to have everything the same, just either I will be the owner, and capable of fixing errors that come about, or I can pass on ownership to someone else if people feel uncomfortable with me as owner.

2004-08-18 [Veltzeh]: Why don't we go with my Pro-Choice League? Aw darn, it always wears off in the comments.

2004-08-18 [Blackshire]: Now this is what this wiki is suposed to be about!

2004-08-18 [Acomplished Exile]: murderers!

2004-08-18 [Acomplished Exile]: <img:http://www.abortiontv.com/images/Fetus-PartialBirth.jpg> -- this is what we are allowing america's mothers to do to milllions of generations, what if it were you?please re consider!its a life, God given life!were is the respect?

2004-08-18 [sophomoric]: Well, just there you are forcing your own religious views on others. To start, what about the billions upon billions of lives that are taken every year by people that eat meat? Are those lives any less God given? Are you any less of a murderer? It's not your life, your body, your soul or your fate. Even if there is a soul, then it is allowed untainted into heaven, while the mother needs to face the consequences on the other side. I'd say it's more of a favour.

2004-08-18 [Delight]: What about the fact that there is so much overpopulation going on? We could all die out because of that, and lack of food, and the next plague. Or we can trim down on, as you put it, millions of generations. Now think, we can all die out the painful way, (I could do what you did, and need to prove my point by putting a picture of the genetal and underarm pustuals that come with the beginning of the black plague, but i'd prefer to separate myself from your actions as much as possible), or we could have some of the people die at birth, without pain, and for a good reason (most likely) and lower the chances or the level of overpopulation, famine and plague (to name a few things).

2004-08-18 [sophomoric]: Or what about abortion in the case of rape? Nothing is worse for the child than to be born into a loveless family, unless of course the loveless family lacks a father. It would result in the child having personality disorders. There are so many other variables... Just because it's your belief that it is wrong doesn't mean it IS wrong; all actions are morally indifferent, it's the circumstances that decide whether the actions are wrong.

2004-08-18 [Delight]: Plus, what if the child is born and has horrid disorders, or is born into a family that doesn't want them? They were a complete accident, and ruined the lifestyle the people had at that point. What if the parents were vengful, and had to quite college or something along those lines for the child. And then, imagine if you will, the parents tell this child that they were unwanted, or tell them that they ruined that life that the parents had been living. That would lead to horrid mental disorders as well, and millions of psychological lesions. (And yes, these situations DO happen.)

2004-08-18 [Veltzeh]: [Acomplished Exile], I'm pretty sure that pic is fake propaganda. In addition to what [sophomoric] and [Delight] said.

2004-08-18 [sophomoric]: hehehe... Get [Delight] and I against you, and victory through logic isn't likely... lol

2004-08-18 [Veltzeh]: I'd add my arguments in too, but most of the stuff has been said and it's half three in the morning. XD

2004-08-18 [Nukleopatra]: well someone finally pushed the button.

2004-08-18 [Acomplished Exile]: what about my ass what about what about..............stop spining you ignorants. overpopulation?then why do we keep having sex, the answer is not abortion its to abstain. Again, if you have sex some of the consequences are pregnancy, dont be a woose, face your consequences! That's if you are a real person with values and morals.................honestly what if the baby wanted to live, what if he had a good future ahead? What if his mother learned frrom her mistake and prooved herself that sh canbe a mother, i mean heck its your child!you are killing your son!that is gruesome!really think about it!

2004-08-18 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: think about it this way...it's not your body...it's really not your concern in this matter....its like saying you cant have a mole removed or something stupid like that. The baby belongs to the mother because she's carrying it. It's hers to do with it what she chooses. I have "christian" believes and i still believe in abortions....Your religion should really have nothing to do with it. It's a. what you feel about it...and b. (for you with religious beliefs) what you think God thinks about it. And stop listening to this public speakers who are christians cuz they're just in it for the money. Duh!

2004-08-19 [Acomplished Exile]: whta speakers?where are going?..........................look at it this way. if you are pregnant then you are supposed to have a baby, cuz naturally its the purpose of sex so if you had sex atain to the cosnequences.......think of it this way.................does she not care what the baby will feel?or what he will be like?does he not deserve a chance to live, be it at a foster home? like you and me do, yes he does

2004-08-19 [sophomoric]: Do you not care what the animals feel when they are slaughtered for people's consumption?

2004-08-19 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: Do you not care how plants feel when they are ripped carelessly from the ground? Plants are alive too. But that's now what I'm on. Foster homes?!?! are you insane? or just stupid? you know how many kids AREN'T in homes when they are put up for adoption. And yes it's the natural thing to do when you have sex (to have a baby). But we're not exactly living in the ice age here. We can take care of unwanted children just as easily as we can take care of unwanted facial features. Actually it's easier.

2004-08-19 [Acomplished Exile]: so its easy to kill our baby?is it good?were are your morals?oh rite, its new age here were if it feels good it goes, i eman who cares, just another pitiful life rite?.........................animals eat other animals to eat so its only natural that we kill them to eat them and by the way i have and anti-animal cruelty wiki End Animal Cruelty-check it out..................

2004-08-19 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: theres another wiki like that. I was taught very liberaly. I believe in being gay. I believe in abortions. I believe in eating meat. Look, I don't know how you were taught. Obviouslly different than me and alot of us here. So...What's the point ofsitting around here trying to argue and change us. I for one am not going to change.

2004-08-19 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: Eating meat is not cruelty. Eating meat is natural

2004-08-19 [sophomoric]: Actually, when you tear the plants out, the haven't any central nervous system with the capability of being aware of the pain. And also, the human digestive system, as well as dental structure bares no similarity whatsoever to any omnivorous or carnivorous animal. Rather, it bares a similarity to that of an herbivore furthering the validity of the vegetarian argument; anyway, my argument is that you can't force your own moralistic views on another person; just because you think something is wrong, doesn't mean people have to abide by your own moral predispositions.

2004-08-19 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: wait wait....so..how do you explain that we have omnivorous dental features...like canines.....we have molars because we eat plants too. Where did you learn about your teeth?

2004-08-19 [sophomoric]: Actually, apes have canines, but the majority happen to be vegetarian, such as the mountain gorilla which happens to have larger canines than we do. Sorry to burst your bubble

2004-08-19 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: Hey, but we eat meat. Get over it. It's been that way for millions of years. The only reason you don't mind eating vegtables is because THEY DONT SCREAM WHEN YOU RIP THEM OUT.

2004-08-19 [sophomoric]: Actually, humanity hasn't been around for millions of years, that is also a fact. Anyway, the reason why I constantly use that as an analogy is not for purposes of making people become vegetarian; I couldn't care less about other people's actions... What my point with that is that I have just as little right to tell people what they can or can't do. People that think abortion is wrong shouldn't be allowed to rob women of the right to choose. The end.

2004-08-19 [sophomoric]: And no, I don't mind eating a vegetable because they are actually incapable of thought; the have no central nervous system (ie brain) which means they lack consciousness, dreams and thoughts. That is why they are incapable of screaming. Animals, on the other hand, do have thoughts, dreams, fears and emotions, therefore it is my own PERSONAL moral position that it is wrong, and as I am in control of only MY actions and no one elses, I am a vegetarian. People can eat meat around me if they like and I don't criticize their CHOICE.

2004-08-19 [// Grace //.And..Bend]: good idea.

2004-08-19 [Delight]: And He's turned this back to the general topic. haha. Okay, Deveel. It may be the new age, but even (I was talking about this note a while ago with a good freind) in what is hypothetically an ideal society, infanticide is committed. I mean, its been supported THROUGH the ages, up until now. Its only recently when power hungry people attempting to control others decided that it was wrong. I understand that killing a baby may be though of as wrong, but there is that argument of when it becomes a technical baby, because if so, are you opposed to the day after pill? Because isn't that still killing a 'baby' in some form? Its all a matter of technicality. Plus..... Who are you, or anyone else...

2004-08-19 [Delight]: to restrain choices to that degree? It has been done in the past, and if you look at history, the decision that it was immoral is completely random. Also, on the foster home factoid mentioned a while ago. How about the people who are against this not waste so much time yelling randomly at others (which will DEFINITELY not change someones opinion) and work on upping hte system so that these children that you are Forcing into a painful world have someone to love htem and somewhere nice to be. Hmm? (And yes, [sophomoric] and I will atleast attempt to acess the logic.)

2004-08-19 [Veltzeh]: (I nitpick on spelling here... it's spelled "definitely".)

2004-08-19 [Delight]: I thank you. I've got... to put it minimally, spelling issues. Sure, great vocabulary, but i can't spell half of the words correctly.

2004-08-19 [Veltzeh]: Yeah, unlike me... my vocabulary isn't that great but my spelling is rather good. ;-)

2004-08-19 [Delight]: Lol! Its one or the other.

2004-08-19 [Blackshire]: I must agree. Man this wiki has some killer rants. This is getting good.

2004-08-20 [The Pink Panther]: "Not the church, not the state, only the women should decide their own fate!" now, could anyone tell me... what about the baby's choice...?

2004-08-20 [sophomoric]: Well, we've discussed this... The baby doesn't yet have the capability to choose, nor does it even comprehend the idea of choice. The fact of the matter is, no woman has to let another creature feed off of her without providing any benefit. If a woman is in a relationship with a guy that eats her food, drinks he beverages, and doesn't do anything to benefit her, and even causes her to feel sick and miserable, most people would tell them to leave. Why have a baby if you don't want one?

2004-08-20 [Delight]: Okay, night wisher... if you go out and invent something that makes it so Somehow, though the infant doesn't have a developed neural system yet, and also is within the uterus of a woman, it can be made so that we can tell the baby's choice.... then i'll personally advertise for you. But until then, behold the impossible, and the fact that the statement that you made is blatently illogical. (And this isn't to make you... well... vacilliate on your decision in life. I have no wish to change that, it'd just be nice if you would realize that its the choice of the people having the child and not ANYONE elses)

2004-08-20 [Delight]: Suddenly i still worry... were you kidding with that remark Night Wisher, and we just balled you out for it... because if so, sorry.

2004-08-20 [}*Princess GuRl #69*{]: Say that the child were to be conceived simply because of a lack of precautionary behaviours on part of both of the parents, then abortion allows people with weakened moral resolve to subject an unborn human being to their own selfish desires; now, while it is yet to be a fully formed human being, it is arguable then that since the human brain hasn't reached full development until the age of 21, then the killing of anyone under that age is fully justifiable since they have not yet reached the peak of their development.

2004-08-20 [Delight]: Not at all, its some general form of a neuroligal system that is capable of personal thought.

2004-08-20 [Veltzeh]: Actually, [}*Princess GuRl #69*{], *I* would allow killing a child even AFTER it's been born! That's just my personal opinion though, and I know it's not going to happen, so I won't start to agrue after what age it should be not allowed anymore. I'm cruel, aren't I? ;-)

2004-08-21 [Nukleopatra]: weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

2004-08-21 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: [Veltzeh] you are disgusting , no offence or anything

2004-08-21 [Nukleopatra]: nah, i don't think she is. i could be but they say i'm a sadistic sarcastic asshole, not disgusting :D

2004-08-21 [Blackshire]: ADEN's AN ASSHOLE!!!! Hehehe you sadistic sarcastic asshole you! I love you though, doll <3

2004-08-21 [Veltzeh]: You are disgusting too, [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]. =D

2004-08-21 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: ok I'm disgusting ;p

2004-08-21 [Blackshire]: Hey hey, what about me?? <3

2004-08-21 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: ok you want to be disgusting too?

2004-08-21 [Blackshire]: =D *wanting face*

2004-08-22 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: =)

2004-08-22 [Blackshire]: No wait, I'm too much of a bitch to be disgusting =D

2004-08-22 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: ah I see ;p

2004-08-22 [Blackshire]: I'M a BIIIITCH!!!

2004-08-22 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: I noticed...;)

2004-08-22 [Blackshire]: Thanks =)

2004-08-22 [Nukleopatra]: AND IM AN ASS

2004-08-22 [Blackshire]: My darling, I must agree. <3

2004-08-22 [Nukleopatra]: >=0 seb go rub yourself against a wall

2004-08-22 [Blackshire]: I was kidding doll <3

2004-08-26 [Nukleopatra]: seb's all shook up

2004-08-26 [Delight]: Why?

2004-08-26 [Blackshire]: Hehehe it was Elvis day two days ago XD... Well accually not Elvis day but more like, "Make fun of [Gone4Eva]'s Elvis impressions :D

2004-08-31 [Acomplished Exile]: lol

2004-08-31 [Tormenta]: WHOA WHOA! Those nasty comments at the top werent there before were they?! [heaven sent]?

2004-08-31 [Acomplished Exile]: lol as i much as i dislike you ppl he really crossed the line on this one

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: That would be people editing this wiki for sake of being disagreeable and confrontational. I am currently working on getting the guards into this situation to either get them warned and/or banned.

2004-08-31 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: do you know who wrote them?

2004-08-31 [heaven sent]: I did. im mad

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: deveel and heaven sent

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